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 Post subject: Gunstravaganza 8a (NATO/EU Assault Rifles): FN FAL
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:22 pm 
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One of the features of Twilight: 2000 that we were very reluctant to discard was the comprehensive listing of the small arms used by major combatants in the European theatre of operations. Unfortunately, with the expanded selection of civilian weapons in Chapter Seven, we didn't have room for as many standard-issue assault rifles and sidearms as we'd have liked to include. The "generic type" entries helped some, but we suspect a lot of readers have been quietly disappointed by the omission of certain weapons.

This is the first of an intermittent series of posts that will flesh out the gaps in the generic weapon entries. It provides Stage I, II, and III traits for the standard-issue assault rifles of the NATO and EU armies that fought in the Twilight War. Traits are presented in a single block. For Stage I, ignore Recoil and use the first Penetration value. For Stage III, ignore standard Damage and Penetration in favor of the appropriate ballistics table for the weapon's caliber.

FN FAL

"The right arm of the free world" was introduced in 1951. It was one of FN's first postwar designs, following (and mechanically derived from) the FN 49. The Fusil Automatique Léger was one of the first - if not the first - successful modern "battle rifles," using a detachable magazine and firing the new NATO standard 7.62x51mm cartridge.

At the height of its popularity during the early Cold War, the FAL was in service with over 20 Western nations. However, NATO's later adoption of the lighter 5.56x45mm round led to a gradual phasing-out of the old warhorse. By the time of the Twilight War, no NATO or EU member issued the FAL to front-line combatants. However, many South American and African nations continued to use it, and large quantities remained in reserve armories across Europe. Where legal, semi-automatic FALs were also prevalent in civilian hands.

The FAL was manufactured in both fixed- and folding-stocked variants. No game difference exists between the two other than the base effects of the folding stock (p. 260).

Code:
Type          |  assault rifle (battle rifle)
Caliber       |  7.62x51mm NATO
Capacity      |  20
Damage        |  8
Penetration   |  x2/x3
Range         |  Medium/Sniping
ROF           |  S/B4
Speed         |  3/6/8
Recoil        |  9
Bulk          |  3
Weight        |  4.0 kg
Barter Value  |  GG900
Street Price  |  $1,800

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 Post subject: Re: Gunstravaganza 8a (NATO/EU Assault Rifles): FN FAL
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:29 pm 
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Hi folks,

As a point of interest, the version of the FAL issue to the British Army before the SA80 was semi-automatic only, and had a few tweaks for use in winter gear (such as a removable trigger guard for use with big gloves) and some extra squaddie-proofing. Also not all the parts were interchangeable with the standard FALs due to the UK using imperial measurements at the time of adoption ('57, IIRC) - it was made to imperial measurements in the British factories.

Clayton, hope you don't mind me chiming in on your gun threads.

Regards,

Shane

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 Post subject: Re: Gunstravaganza 8a (NATO/EU Assault Rifles): FN FAL
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:02 pm 
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Shane wrote:
As a point of interest, the version of the FAL issue to the British Army before the SA80 was semi-automatic only, and had a few tweaks for use in winter gear (such as a removable trigger guard for use with big gloves) and some extra squaddie-proofing. Also not all the parts were interchangeable with the standard FALs due to the UK using imperial measurements at the time of adoption ('57, IIRC) - it was made to imperial measurements in the British factories.

Aha. I'd seen mention of imperial versus metric FALs before, but I'd never retained the details on exactly what the differences were. The British version was designated L1A1, right?

Quote:
Clayton, hope you don't mind me chiming in on your gun threads.

Not as long as you know what you're talking about! :)

- C.

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 Post subject: Re: Gunstravaganza 8a (NATO/EU Assault Rifles): FN FAL
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:28 pm 
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Tegyrius wrote:
Aha. I'd seen mention of imperial versus metric FALs before, but I'd never retained the details on exactly what the differences were. The British version was designated L1A1, right?


Indeed it was - the L1A1, also colloquially called the SLR. it had a ton of differences that were minor in functionality but major in parts compatibility (complete sub-assemblies tended to be compatible but not individual parts). the wikipedia article is quite good on it.

Incidentally, it was easy enough to get full-auto out of the L1A1 with a matchstick, but I never learned how as they phased the SLR out before I joined and my exposure to them was only occasionaly at the one unit I went to that had some left.

Quote:
Not as long as you know what you're talking about! :)


Heh. You been speaking to my wife?

But yeah, thankfully 14 years (and still going) colour service has given me a decent enough base for British Army stuff. On other stuff I am not so useful.

Regards,

Shane

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 Post subject: Re: Gunstravaganza 8a (NATO/EU Assault Rifles): FN FAL
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:29 pm 
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Canada used 3 versions of the FN-FAL:
1) FNC1- standard issue service rifle until replaced by the C7. Semi auto.
2) FNC2- was the section automatic rifle. Came with a bipod, used a 30 round magazine and was automatic.
3) FNC1A1D- was only used by the Royal Canadian Navy for Boarding Parties. It was also capable of autofire.


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 Post subject: Re: Gunstravaganza 8a (NATO/EU Assault Rifles): FN FAL
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:35 pm 
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As a special Alternate Arms extra, here's what the FAL would look like in .280 British:

Code:
Type          |  assault rifle (battle rifle)
Caliber       |  .280 British
Capacity      |  20
Damage        |  7
Penetration   |  x2/x3
Range         |  Medium/Sniping
ROF           |  S/B4
Speed         |  3/6/8
Recoil        |  8
Bulk          |  3
Weight        |  3.6 kg
Barter Value  |  N/A
Street Price  |  N/A


- C.

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 Post subject: FALO
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:58 pm 
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There might be one more type of FAL to generate stats for: the Israeli heavy barrel FAL, or FALO. The only reason I bring this up is I just built one and it is a heavy monster.

I have a Trilux SUIT optic sight on it. These were used by both the British and Israelis. I did not see stats for this sight, but other than using an inverted post, it could easily be treated as just a 4X optic. These sights were noted for being very rugged and would return to zero if popped off/on the special mount on the top cover.

One final note about the FAL - the original design of this gun was for it to use the 8mm Kurtz round from the WW II German MP44! This was changed to the .280 early one, and eventually 7.62x51 and 5.56.

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 Post subject: Re: Gunstravaganza 8a (NATO/EU Assault Rifles): FN FAL
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:37 pm 
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Keep in mind that if you have a metric pattern FAL (Most of the world), you can only use metric pattern magazines. The UK/Canadian/Australian inch pattern FAL's can use either inch pattern magazines or metric pattern magazines.


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 Post subject: Re: Gunstravaganza 8a (NATO/EU Assault Rifles): FN FAL
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:37 pm 
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Papadoc wrote:
Keep in mind that if you have a metric pattern FAL (Most of the world), you can only use metric pattern magazines. The UK/Canadian/Australian inch pattern FAL's can use either inch pattern magazines or metric pattern magazines.


Doesn't take much to convert an inch pattern magazine to metric, the main difference is the size of the front mag catch which is wider and brazed or welded on inch pattern mags vs. the stamped catch on metric. File that down and an inch mag will work in a metric FAL.

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 Post subject: Re: Gunstravaganza 8a (NATO/EU Assault Rifles): FN FAL
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:54 pm 
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I want an FAL so bad, but it's not exactly practical in the "suburban jungle" of New York / New Jersey. :cry: Shame too, considering that it's legally less involved to buy then, say, an AR-15. Does anyone know how it did in Vietnam? Seems pretty ideal, since the Western ARs had some penetration issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Gunstravaganza 8a (NATO/EU Assault Rifles): FN FAL
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:30 pm 
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I really enjoy my L1A1 (when I get the rare opportunity) - but it's got a good kick to it. Can't imagine that thing in full auto like the original FAL!

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 Post subject: Re: Gunstravaganza 8a (NATO/EU Assault Rifles): FN FAL
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:14 pm 
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Thud105 wrote:
I really enjoy my L1A1 (when I get the rare opportunity) - but it's got a good kick to it. Can't imagine that thing in full auto like the original FAL!


Firing our FNC2s back when the CF had them, I found to be less then an enjoyable experience lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Gunstravaganza 8a (NATO/EU Assault Rifles): FN FAL
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:31 pm 
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Aimed accurate fire is more important than rock and roll anyway, the only time you need full auto is for suppressive fires or multiple targets. A person can get a couple of quick rounds out and that usually does the trick in semi. Saves ammo as well, especially in a situation where ou might not be able to resupple easily.
Many years ago I fired an FAL and loved the weapon big..yes, Heavy..yes but reliable and accurate as all hell...Oh yes.
As far as AR's go the 5.56 round has been debated for 4 decades now and while I think it does not quite measure up it is a decent round and the heavier bullet weights out now, make it somewhat better then it was. for direct impingment systems the main thing is to keep it lubed, dry fireing the weapon will result to failure at some point probably sooner rather than later. From my experiance it seems true and my boy has been in the sandbox and is returning soon and he also says that a couple drops of lube periodically keeps his rifle working but to much lube makes for nasty gunk in the sandy environment. Also keep it as clean as possible helps alot a lack of basic maintenance will cause the weapon to fail as well. The newer piston systems while having issues of their own do keep the receiver cooler and less junk in the works helps reliability.


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 Post subject: Re: Gunstravaganza 8a (NATO/EU Assault Rifles): FN FAL
PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:32 pm 
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Ranger wrote:
From my experiance it seems true and my boy has been in the sandbox and is returning soon and he also says that a couple drops of lube periodically keeps his rifle working but to much lube makes for nasty gunk in the sandy environment. Also keep it as clean as possible helps alot a lack of basic maintenance will cause the weapon to fail as well. The newer piston systems while having issues of their own do keep the receiver cooler and less junk in the works helps reliability.


Agreed, but some of the things some people advocate for cleaning aren't really necessary (e.g. scraping carbon from the tail of the bolt) and it's not a sensitive to blow back as some make out. Here's an article by Pat Rogers, a highly regarded AR-15/M16 trainer:
http://www.ar15.com/content/swat/keepitrunning.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Gunstravaganza 8a (NATO/EU Assault Rifles): FN FAL
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:33 pm 
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Here is a good web page about the differences between the inch and metric FALs.
http://www.centuryarms.com/receivers.htm
I would love to see various versions of the FAL broken down for this game. We need more guns! :)
Also, everyone knows what a G3 is, but the G1 was a West German FAL. I am still trying to find what the G2 was.

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 Post subject: Re: Gunstravaganza 8a (NATO/EU Assault Rifles): FN FAL
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:02 am 
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Bubba_OH wrote:
Here is a good web page about the differences between the inch and metric FALs.
http://www.centuryarms.com/receivers.htm
I would love to see various versions of the FAL broken down for this game. We need more guns! :)
Also, everyone knows what a G3 is, but the G1 was a West German FAL. I am still trying to find what the G2 was.



There probably wasn't a G2 as the H&K G3 replaced the German version of the FN (G1).


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 Post subject: Re: Gunstravaganza 8a (NATO/EU Assault Rifles): FN FAL
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:14 am 
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Raptor wrote:
Bubba_OH wrote:
Here is a good web page about the differences between the inch and metric FALs.
http://www.centuryarms.com/receivers.htm
I would love to see various versions of the FAL broken down for this game. We need more guns! :)
Also, everyone knows what a G3 is, but the G1 was a West German FAL. I am still trying to find what the G2 was.



There probably wasn't a G2 as the H&K G3 replaced the German version of the FN (G1).


The G2 was the SIG 510 chambered in 7.62x51mm NATO. The G4 was the Armalite AR-10 in 7.62x51mm NATO. The G3 won the competition against these to be adopted.

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 Post subject: Re: Gunstravaganza 8a (NATO/EU Assault Rifles): FN FAL
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:08 pm 
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JStodola wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Bubba_OH wrote:
Here is a good web page about the differences between the inch and metric FALs.
http://www.centuryarms.com/receivers.htm
I would love to see various versions of the FAL broken down for this game. We need more guns! :)
Also, everyone knows what a G3 is, but the G1 was a West German FAL. I am still trying to find what the G2 was.



There probably wasn't a G2 as the H&K G3 replaced the German version of the FN (G1).


The G2 was the SIG 510 chambered in 7.62x51mm NATO. The G4 was the Armalite AR-10 in 7.62x51mm NATO. The G3 won the competition against these to be adopted.



Hey J, I looked on the SIG page, Wkiki, and on the Modern Firearms sites and there is no mention of the German military using it. Would you be able to post the site you and using as your source page. Thanks! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Gunstravaganza 8a (NATO/EU Assault Rifles): FN FAL
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:27 pm 
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Raptor wrote:
JStodola wrote:
The G2 was the SIG 510 chambered in 7.62x51mm NATO. The G4 was the Armalite AR-10 in 7.62x51mm NATO. The G3 won the competition against these to be adopted.



Hey J, I looked on the SIG page, Wkiki, and on the Modern Firearms sites and there is no mention of the German military using it. Would you be able to post the site you and using as your source page. Thanks! :)


The Germans never did. It was just in the competition to replace the G1.

I've seen it referenced enough I don't remember where I first saw it. Maybe Assault Rifle by Anthony Williams.

It is referenced on Wikipedia in two articles I know of:
the G3
Ludwig Vorgrimler

ETA:
It was Assault Rifle, p. 112:
Quote:
After trials held in 1956, the Spanish CETME design (which had been developed with a great deal of input from German engineers) was chosen. Other weapons tested against the CETME (G3) were the FN FAL (G1), the Swiss SIG SG-510 (G2), and the ArmaLite AR-10 (G4).


Maxim Popenker is co-author with Williams.

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