http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004 ... l#comments

As you guys probably all know by now, the new imperative in air power for our military is loiter time, weapons load, and minimization of logistical footprint. Drones have been massively popular for two out of the three reasons (payload is an issue just being solved recently), but the Department of Defense is looking at new, Vietnam-style light aircraft to provide sustainable air support in a form that can realistically be maintained at the front.

These COIN aircraft seem ideal for the Twilight world. They're easily maintainable, don't rely on the decimated technological core of first world powers, and most importantly, they get to the point. Here's to hoping we see a couple in the inevitable air supplement.. in fact, I'd like the air book to handle itself just like the core book's vehicles - a couple "pie in the sky" aircraft like the Eurofighter, F-35s (not enough F-22s for me to buy that any of them survived the Twilight War), and whatever the new MiG is, but mostly helicopters and these COIN-style planes.

More like a rebirth. I know the Navy is looking at the idea of buying and fielding Embraer EMB-314's as Sandy airframes to support their Special Ops folks, but the last I heard the money crunch was killing it.

Here is a recent article from DoD Buzz on the AT 802.

http://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/06/02/look- ... oin-plane/

Bah! Just bring back the OV-10, the O-2, and the A-37. Worry about making the T-6A into a COIN bird later. Or better yet, just buy one that's already on the market like the SUPER TUCANO...save a ton of R&D money in these tough economic times.

Yeah the SUPER TUCANO is the frame that the Navy is looking at. For some reason its easier for me to remember model numbers.

If what you want in your COIN plane is firepower then I think the Super Tucano is the right way to go. However, a COIN aircraft needs to be a good ISR platform as well. Its wings block a good portion of the pilots view. True, all the pilot has to do is tip or turn the plane, but if you can keep it simple that is always the best thing to do. Especially if you want the pilot to conduct ISR activities for those ten hour he'll be up there.

I agree, the OV-10 would make a good COIN plane, and the O-2 to a lesser extent. These two or something along their lines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FMA_IA_58_Pucar%C3%A1

One of my favorites for ovious reaons .... an oldie but still works...

The PUCARA is a good choice too my friend! I even thought about adding it to my list up there, but then thought our British friends might scoff me (j/k about the scoffing part)

Don't worry. I'm not been taking my Scoff Mixture!

Pucara's are a nice plane though.

Anything come of this?

http://aimpoints.hq.af.mil/display.cfm?id=20181

The plot thickens:

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004941.html

There's a couple other articles that you can link off of this month's defensetech if you're so inclined. This will probably be happening sooner rather then later, and why not? Seems like a great initiative that'll diffuse the USAF's China obsession.

So far, it looks like the Air Force is looking at a formation of COIN aircraft, like J mentioned. The story seems to have changed now, though, as the Air Force isn't sure if it'll be a flight, wing, squadron, or whatever, and it's looking like it may be thrown into the general structure instead of AFSOC, since it's a good capability to have at large, and fits with the 50%/40%/10% conventional/mixed/irregular criteria Gates wants.

I really don't get the Navy's interest, though.. developing out a whole unit of COIN planes for the Navy's Special Forces seems a little excessive for a sea force. Everybody has to rely on somebody, sometime. With any luck, if the Air Force's investment ends up in the regular pool, it'll be big enough to support the whole military.

Generally speaking, it's always better to have it organic. There is always a chance for a disconnect or friction when dealing with units, let alone services, outside of your own. I never understood some of the pissing matches between the Army and the Air Force until I became a jumpmaster and dealt with air crews. I can imagine it only gets worse at higher staff levels.

If the Navy has it's own COIN fleet, it's easier to integrate them with the SEALs. Way easier.

Heck instead of buying foreign they should have dusted off Sandy's plans and updated them with the newer tech now available.

Too many guys I talked to loved Sandy for saving their asses in VN. They use the same tone of voice that a tanker talks about Apache and Warthog support.

Highly doubt it. The A-10 fleet is hard enough to keep in the air as it is. Those airframes are toast. The COIN Squadron idea is not dead yet, though. The Fighter Mafia might be more inclined to move on it now that the F-22 has been Harpooned.

Speaking of the Mafia here is a little ditty that sums those boys up pretty well.

NOT SAFE FOR WORK!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM3vLer6YFg

More movement on the COIN plane.

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2009/ ... e_080309w/

IOC by 2013? I'll believe that when I see it! Nothing my AF does moves that fast unless we're in the middle of a world war (but we didn't technically exist for those) or if there's a need for a weapon because nothing we have can do what is required (read: BLU-113/GBU-28)

Well from the way that reads they are looking for a plane that can fire a gun. I do not think we have a plane that can do that yet.

This article came up on the COIN air wing the other day.

http://www.dodbuzz.com/2010/02/03/coin- ... the-wings/

Thought it was worth bringing this thread back to life for a little bit.